Help link in editor - how useful?

[Albert Wiersch]

I'm wondering how useful it would be to have some sort of easily accessible "help link" in CSE HTML Validator's Editor that would provide help for CSS properties and HTML tags based on where the caret is in the document and what CSS property or tag is nearby.

For example, type "padding:" and a help link would appear in the main menu bar that would attempt to open your browser and take you to some type of help page for the "padding" CSS property.

Does something like this sound helpful?

[Lowiepete]

Hi Albert,

As I have voted "No", perhaps I should explain why. The real main
advantage of your software is that it's "lean & mean", compared to
the widely available bloatware. Another reason being that to find,
and keep up to date with, Web links that are notoriously ephemeral
in nature will only be making a rod for your own back.

Yet another is that everyone is probably at a different level along
their CSS / HTML learning curve, moreso for CSS I suspect. In that
event, for some, a link to say W3C Schools may only serve to confuse.
For example, deciding between CSS short-hand, or not - even when
perhaps working in "refresher" mode.

By all means add functionality, e.g. the link-checker is really valuable,
but I'm always fearful that a piece of really good kit gets spoiled by
suddenly becoming top-heavy. On pages with many outside links, I
can tolerate the long delay, so the functionality balance remains.

Just my two-pennoth...

[MikeGale]

I think this is a good idea.

I gave it a bit of thought and here's a quick take.

Let's say I'm doing something new on a web page. First time around I do what seems obvious and find it doesn't work in some cases. (Like a corner case or some browser/situation combination OR it's just plain wrong.)

I then go looking for more information.

The usual approach would be a web search or a look at documentation (already found). Often what's looked at first is fairly useless and it takes several attempts, say 5, to find anything.

A tool that cuts out wasted time, at least fairly often, might be addictive.

I get the point that there's a range of knowledge, skill and background out there. Without testing it, I'm pretty sure that CSE users are more savvy than a many audiences. They would benefit more than most from such a facility.

[Albert Wiersch]

As I have voted "No", perhaps I should explain why. The real main
advantage of your software is that it's "lean & mean", compared to
the widely available bloatware.

The feature should be light-weight on the user's end and I will provide an option to disable it.

Another reason being that to find,
and keep up to date with, Web links that are notoriously ephemeral
in nature will only be making a rod for your own back.

Yes, that is one of my concerns - maintaining good help pages and good links... but if it is a popular feature, then it would probably be worth it. To try to make it popular, it would be included in all editions, including the lite edition.

[Albert Wiersch]

I think this is a good idea.

That's good. I think I'm going to go for it and see what happens.

A tool that cuts out wasted time, at least fairly often, might be addictive.

Yes, I would aim for that, but it will take awhile to compile all the help information and links. On the help page, I could provide a feedback link for people to suggest additional links. With a lot of good suggestions, it could become pretty helpful.

[MikeGale]

I think you've identified some key issues.

1) Stale links, easy when using CSE!

2) User feedback, without the dangers of Wikipedia.

3) Curation. i.e. Somebody managing the resource.

There might be a spinoff, a way to leveraging some part of the information to attract interest.

[Albert Wiersch]

CSE HTML Validator Professional v9.9935 with the new "dynamic help" feature is now available here:
http://www.htmlvalidator.com/beta

I'm not advertising this update yet... but would ask that you guys check it out, especially the new "dynamic help" feature and let me know what you think.

One thing I'd like to do is partner with some sites that have good HTML/CSS references and information. I've emailed a couple to see if they're interested.

[MikeGale]

I've just tested the new Beta (9935). Comments follow.

1) The jslint file creation problem wasn't noticed.

2) In batch tool I altered a target file (to save results at). The UI save button remained greyed out, so I needed to be a bit creative with altering the existing file.

3) I tested out the help hint tool, see below:

3.1) Firstly, I really like this. The button on the toolbar is not in your face, but is easy to notice and is a great way to integrate desktop application and web. Being so lightweight and with content control in the cloud really sorts out "up-to-dateness".

3.2) I used the email a suggestion page. Great way of doing some of the job. I personally found the "repeat your email" too much. I'm happier to just enter it once. (If your experience shows that mistakes are common, that trumps whatever I think.) For link suggestions I suggest a text box for the link. (It would be a nice mindcatching touch if this was verified automatically online using CSE. Dead link no email sent and user gets a message. Link works then email is sent. An online validation of the page might have benefits too.)

3.3) There's a lot of possibilities on the landing page. What's there already does a good job. Some pages don't yet have introductory text and I noticed that lack immediately (but I know it's alpha). The nature of the links can be varied, some ideas:

3.4) Have a wiki (preferrably) or forum post for each element so that users can contribute valuable examples while still interested.

3.5) Encourage blog posts or similar in an "about this resource" page so that users realise that the're allowed to do that, if they have the time and inclination.

3.6) I sent an example, in that email, of an area where the W3C documentation could be improved, in one case.

3.7) A linked page listing, in some way, validation cases from CSE (relating to that element) is also a possibility.

3.8) W3Schools seems a natural fit for a link.

Thanks Albert. I'm impressed.

[Albert Wiersch]

1) The jslint file creation problem wasn't noticed.

Great!

2) In batch tool I altered a target file (to save results at). The UI save button remained greyed out, so I needed to be a bit creative with altering the existing file.

Thanks. I will check it out.

3.2) I used the email a suggestion page. Great way of doing some of the job. I personally found the "repeat your email" too much. I'm happier to just enter it once. (If your experience shows that mistakes are common, that trumps whatever I think.) For link suggestions I suggest a text box for the link. (It would be a nice mindcatching touch if this was verified automatically online using CSE. Dead link no email sent and user gets a message. Link works then email is sent. An online validation of the page might have benefits too.)

I received your suggestion and will work on it today. As for repeating the email, I use to not have that but added it after I tried to reply to some people's messages but couldn't because they entered a bad email address. It is very frustrating when you want to reply but can't - and the person may think that you're ignoring them when they don't get anything back.

A text box for the link sounds like a good idea. I may add that if I get enough suggestions coming in. The link verification could be done easier with PHP since our server is Linux based. It shouldn't be too hard to simply check to see if the link exists when a user enters it in the form, if I add the textbox to enter the link, then I could display the result right away... but that is an idea to implement later (need to get V10 finalized).

3.3) There's a lot of possibilities on the landing page. What's there already does a good job. Some pages don't yet have introductory text and I noticed that lack immediately (but I know it's alpha). The nature of the links can be varied, some ideas:

3.4) Have a wiki (preferrably) or forum post for each element so that users can contribute valuable examples while still interested.

3.5) Encourage blog posts or similar in an "about this resource" page so that users realise that the're allowed to do that, if they have the time and inclination.

3.6) I sent an example, in that email, of an area where the W3C documentation could be improved, in one case.

3.7) A linked page listing, in some way, validation cases from CSE (relating to that element) is also a possibility.

3. W3Schools seems a natural fit for a link.

Yes, there are indeed a lot of possibilities. I hope this system becomes used enough to make it worth the time making the pages better and adding some of the things you suggested. I would like to add W3Schools links and have already emailed them about a partnership but am still waiting to hear back.

Thanks Albert. I'm impressed.

Good to hear! Thanks again for the feedback.