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AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:25 am
by Albert Wiersch
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on AMP (Accelerated Mobile Pages) HTML? It's suppose to help speed up the web on mobile devices.

My personal experience with browsing on a phone has been quite poor because things are so slow, jumpy, frustrating, and often aggravating. It could be so much better.

If you actually use AMP HTML then please reply hear and let me know.

Here is more information:
https://www.ampproject.org/

And a quick YouTube video (a little over one minute):


youtu.be/i2_lAEzmOPo

Here's a good article asking if we really need it:
https://www.tunetheweb.com/blog/do-we-r ... oogle-amp/

and a follow-up:
https://www.tunetheweb.com/blog/impleme ... ile-pages/

I mostly agree with the author of the above page that basically says it is unnecessary. If you want to speed up a page on a mobile device then you can do so without the restrictions imposed by AMP HTML... you just optimize your HTML and JavaScript and stop loading all the bloat. Then again, AMP HTML forces you to optimize, and is backed by Google, which might give developers the push they need to finally do something to make mobile browsing less frustrating.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:49 pm
by Albert Wiersch
I'm working on AMP HTML Validation in CSE HTML Validator v17. If you are interested in BETA testing this then please send me a PM (private message).

UPDATE: It's now supported by the v17 BETA that is used at http://www.OnlineWebCheck.com/

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:46 pm
by MikeGale
I know this is intended for those actually using AMP. I'm not, so feel free to ignore what follows:

When I see Google initiatives I check for evidence that they support their philosophy as one of the biggest Surveillance Capitalism outfits around. In this initiative I see evidence of that:
  1. The CDN aspects give them additional logging of everyone all-the-time capabilities. Each use of their CDN keeps track of users that bit better.
  2. It appears to break the main stream web so will create a walled garden. I haven't thought through that in detail but it seems to gel with the approach to adverts, program (app) stores etc. (If anybody has more thoughts on that...)
  3. I did think through the equivalent Facebook venture. I was not impressed with it. This may be a somewhat rushed me-too response to that.
  4. It seems to take the philosophy of preventing page makers from being in charge to a new level. No developer code allowed for example. This will actively prevent some good ideas from having a chance, and further anaesthetise the brains of some developers. In my view another blow in the "project" to turn humans more stupid.
The small amount of technical practice that I've looked at suggests that the proprietary aspects get in the way of developers.

This post reminds me how much I really miss having an RSS feed for this forum. What approaches are others using to see new posts in their automated feeds?

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:30 pm
by Albert Wiersch
MikeGale wrote:This post reminds me how much I really miss having an RSS feed for this forum. What approaches are others using to see new posts in their automated feeds?
Hi Mike, there's a feed here:
feed.php

Also, if you go to a specific forum, there should be a link at the bottom to subscribe to the forum so you get emails when new posts are made to that forum.

In the 'Quick Links' menu there are 'New posts' and 'Unread posts' options that you can go to and bookmark, and then just go to the bookmark every few days or so to see if anything is new.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:19 pm
by MikeGale
Thanks for that.

I'm not sure why how I lost that.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:28 am
by RSteinwand
I've lost a lot of things as I get older.... :roll:

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:38 am
by RSteinwand
This is the part that concerns me:
CSS blocks all rendering, it blocks page load, and it tends to get bloated. In AMP HTML pages, only inline styles are allowed. This removes 1 or often more HTTP requests from the critical rendering path compared to most web pages.
I have critical css inlined, but load the rest after the page loads. Still, I'm interested in applying what principles I can. :roll:

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:54 am
by Albert Wiersch
RSteinwand wrote:I have critical css inlined, but load the rest after the page loads. Still, I'm interested in applying what principles I can. :roll:
I think the good thing about that requirement is that it forces people to be efficient.

When I've done some Google searches on my mobile phone, sometimes I see AMP links first. I have no problem clicking on the AMP links because they do come in much faster. If I click on something else then more often than not it's extremely bloated, slow to load, slow to render, ad-filled, and annoying to read as the page keeps jumping around (I think the word for this is "jank")...... not to mention that it probably uses a lot more data (I don't have unlimited). Because of all that I try to avoid clicking on non-AMP links on my phone because you really don't know what you're going to get (a mobile optimized page or a a bloated page). If I'm on WiFi then I might click on them but still prefer not to.

So I think AMP is a good thing as it forces sites to be efficient. While you can be efficient with HTML, many sites are not and may never be unless there is some "force" requiring them to de-bloat.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:58 am
by RSteinwand
I think a lot of the difference you're seeing is where someone actually coded an optimized page instead of the junk people throw together on a generic site. Check out a lot of the sites on Google's PageSpeed Insights and you'll see a lot of crap.

I was trying to view content on a page that had to redraw every time it loaded Google Fonts. Boy was that annoying since I was following links, then coming back and the paragraph I was trying to read kept jumping around.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:51 am
by Albert Wiersch
Well, yes, the AMP pages are almost always optimized while the other pages (regular HTML) may or may not be optimized, and, more often than not, they aren't optimized... and are therefore painfully slow and bloated.

Have you done a google search on a mobile device where it shows you AMP links at the top or the results?

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:09 pm
by RSteinwand
I've never seen searches marked with "AMP".

I don't use my phone much unless I'm traveling (rare). Usually I use a laptop (or tablet) connected to wi-fi for research. I share one gb of data with my wife and we never get close to the limit, mainly due to using private wi-fi (friends & relatives) when possible.

Re: AMP HTML

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:05 pm
by Albert Wiersch
Hi Rick,

If I go to Chrome on my mobile phone and search for "debate" on Google, the top stories feature AMP documents and they are marked as such with a little lightening bolt and the text "AMP"... and the stories come up MUCH FASTER. It's actually usable and the way things should work. :)

If you are able then can you try it on your phone and see if you get the same results?