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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:41 am
by Dwight_Stegall
If you are talking about HTML Frames the getting rid of the horizontal scrollbar is simple.

In the pages that load into the frames use the xml prolog above the doctype. This throws IE into the quirks mode. In the quirks mode the horizontal scrollbar doesn't form.

Did you know you can validate the frameset page with framespacing="0" in the frameset tag? It's real easy.

You have to make two frameset codes. The first one has framespacing="0" for IE and border="0" for Firefox. Put that in the Frameset Tag. This eliminates the framespacing in all browsers. Encase this frameset in Conditional Comments to hide it from the validator.

Now make another frameset without that in it for the validator to see. Make sure the rows and cols and other settings are the same as the other frameset code without framespacing="0" and border="0" in it. This way the browser won't change things when it reads the second framset code.

There really isn't any reason to Validate the Frameset page since it never shows on the screen. But now you can if you want to. :)

I suggest that you forget about frames. They create more problems than they save. However, I use them a lot for the pages I make that no one else ever sees. :)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:32 pm
by MikeGale
For public pages which need to be found the rise of the search engines has killed frames for me. (There's some pretty easy ways to fix that with a smarter HTML design but we're stuck with what we have.)

For pages that are not public and fulfil special purposes Frames can be the best technique out there. (Those who condemn frames, out of hand, presumably have never done that sort of work!)

Re: Frames?

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:59 pm
by paulp575
I am trying to create a local document that has a header (banner plus breadcrumbs) and then two columns.
The left column would contain the table of contents; the right column would contain the actual document - in this case a very long document that has articles and sections (that's why the TofC!).

I know that frames are pretty much gone for online documents, but CSE keeps telling me to use the iframe tag in lieu of the frame tag.
I understand the basics of iframes, but can't figure out how to do two iframes side-by-side.

Anyone got any suggestions????


Re: Frames?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:55 pm
by Albert Wiersch

What about using CSS with "div" elements to create a left column with the ToC? I think that may be the best solution.

Perhaps I should update that comment to suggest possibly using CSS as well (probably should!)?

I did a quick google search for "creating columns with css" and found this page that may help: ... out/2-col/

And also a YouTube video (but haven't watched it):

Re: Frames?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:16 pm
by JackGibson
Nice post.

Frames have gained a really bad reputation but I often find myself coding websites where (for whatever reason) I find a frame the most useful and best method. It's a shame that the use of frames (apparently) kills SEO rankings of a site.

I've experimented with the DIV method mentioned above an in many cases I have used this but there are still those occasional times where a frame is required.

Just my 0.02c!


Re: Frames?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:57 pm
by MikeGale
Agree that frames have their place.

If you know enough you can use them in some places where they fit. (Or twist the design so that they do fit!)

Unfortunately some of the potential of the web has been effectively lost because those who design the tools didn't come up with good fixes to problems.

A bad area is the Search Engine algorithms. They seem to have taken a lazy approach in some cases. A thing that can be sensibly detected by a switched on human is covered by an algorithm with a way low "IQ". In a "world of free" we have no leverage to control the guys who impose this on us.

Re: Frames?

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:53 pm
by youzni
I am kind of confused. Should I or should not learn how to deal with frames. If anybody can give me a hint it would be best :)

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Re: Frames?

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:19 pm
by Albert Wiersch
youzni wrote:I am kind of confused. Should I or should not learn how to deal with frames. If anybody can give me a hint it would be best :)
I'd say the best advice is to try to avoid them unless you absolutely have to use them.