Error Message About Fonts Families Does Not Make Sense

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paulp575
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Error Message About Fonts Families Does Not Make Sense

Post by paulp575 »

Version: Pro v8.03

While checking files, the following error message about font families appears:

Code: Select all

Typefaces from more than one family were given. Typically, for a consistent look, the typefaces should all be from the same font family. Number of serif family typefaces: 1 ("serif"), sans-serif: 2 ("helvetica", "arial"), cursive: 0, fantasy: 0, monospace: 0, other: 0.
I do not understand what it's trying to say. Anyone else not understand this message? What are the numbers?

I really think this could be explained a lot clearer.
paulp575
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MikeGale
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Post by MikeGale »

Hi paulp575

For me the message is good and clear.

To see some background on font families look at links like

http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/

http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_font_font-family.asp

In essence the font list defines what the user sees depending on what fonts are installed. For this we have a crude separation into the families mentioned. It is the job of the designer to pick fonts which will (presumably) look most similar despite differences in installed fonts. (I've never stepped across font family lines when doing this.)

The use I can see for something like "helvetica, arial, serif;" would be to show up any machine that lacks both of the sans-serif fonts. Any such machine would show the page looking glaringly different. (If you check the first link above you'll find that such machines may be hard to find. Which raises issues of wise choice of fonts, this is an important topic to get a feel for.)

There is potential here for somebody to create a list of background reading, indexed to that first sentence in the CSE message. I'm not going to do it but somebody might like to pick up that idea, maybe as a wiki!! With something like that, it would be really convenient to read up on background.
paulp575
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Error Message About Fonts Families Does Not Make Sense

Post by paulp575 »

MikeGale wrote:Hi paulp575

For me the message is good and clear.

(I've never stepped across font family lines when doing this.)
So I guess what it's saying is that I've stepped across font families?
MikeGale wrote: The use I can see for something like "helvetica, arial, serif;" would be to show up any machine that lacks both of the sans-serif fonts. Any such machine would show the page looking glaringly different. (If you check the first link above you'll find that such machines may be hard to find. Which raises issues of wise choice of fonts, this is an important topic to get a feel for.)
I normally use fonts that are probably on most users machines, i.e., arial, courier, and times new roman. But then I also include the default fonts (sans and sans-serif).

Problem is, I don't really understand the different types of font families.
And the two links above didn't really provide a decent list. I've been using the same font family list for quite a while now and just recently (maybe with v8.0?) this error message started showing up.

Previously I've been just ignoring it, but decided to see if I could eliminate it.

For example, if my first choice is arial, which default font should I also specify? Same with courier or Times New Roman.
MikeGale wrote:There is potential here for somebody to create a list of background reading, indexed to that first sentence in the CSE message. I'm not going to do it but somebody might like to pick up that idea, maybe as a wiki!! With something like that, it would be really convenient to read up on background.
You seem to agree with me that a some type of list would definitely be helpful!

Thanks for your help,
paulp575
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MikeGale
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Post by MikeGale »

Hi paulp575

The sans-serif fonts are those without "cross pieces" on the top of el's etc.

So that would be Arial, Helvetica and the rest.

Serif has those cross pieces and is very common in printed books.

Thats things like "Times New Roman", Times etc.

Monospace fonts are typewriter fonts like Courier, "Courier New"...

In my view the Windows operating system now does a good job of rendering these on screen. If you have a Windows machine you can also look at the Apple way of rendering fonts with a copy of the Safari Web Browser (now in Beta). I personally find that (Apple) handling looks fuzzy.

There are some extremely well designed fonts from Microsoft. Like the recently launched Consolas family. Great resources have been poured into making these (and Verdana etc.) work very well on screen. (I don't know how widespread they are at present but suspect they will be used a lot in future. Some current lists of fonts are a bit old and don't mention them, so statistics might mislead you.)

On the web many designers go for sans fonts these days. This differs from print where (in my view) a serif font is more often right for the job. (In the early web days a lot of people thought that web pages were like print. They used serif to excess, and when you see the designs today, they often don't look good.)
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Albert Wiersch
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Post by Albert Wiersch »

These links might also be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serif

The second one clearly shows what serifs are in an image (they are highlighted in red).
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Post by MikeGale »

In reading the blog of the thread I realised that my mention of Safari could be taken as a recommendation.

It's not.

I'm using it fine but I have seen seen an annoyance that blows my socks off. I installed the product where I wanted it and put in shortcuts to it. The first time it had an update I said go ahead install. I simply could not believe what it did. It uninstalled the product from my chosen place and re-installed it in the default place. It asked not a single question while it went off and invalidated any settings I had made. (It also now also keeps asking me if I want an iTunes update. I don't use iTunes and don't expect to. There is no way to switch that thing off, other than by killing that Apple-Update-Manager thing. Which on thinking about it might be a good idea.)

They said that the software had a different culture! It certainly wants to trample over my "culture".
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Albert Wiersch
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Post by Albert Wiersch »

MikeGale wrote:In reading the blog of the thread I realised that my mention of Safari could be taken as a recommendation.

It's not.

I'm using it fine but I have seen seen an annoyance that blows my socks off. I installed the product where I wanted it and put in shortcuts to it. The first time it had an update I said go ahead install. I simply could not believe what it did. It uninstalled the product from my chosen place and re-installed it in the default place. It asked not a single question while it went off and invalidated any settings I had made. (It also now also keeps asking me if I want an iTunes update. I don't use iTunes and don't expect to. There is no way to switch that thing off, other than by killing that Apple-Update-Manager thing. Which on thinking about it might be a good idea.)

They said that the software had a different culture! It certainly wants to trample over my "culture".
Wow... I guess that is Apple's way of making everything simpler to use... it just does what it wants and it doesn't matter what the user says. At least it is asking if you want the update.

I use to have Quicktime on my computer, but got annoyed at it and refuse to install it now. Too bad for those sites that require it.

I do like the iPods, but iTunes could definitely use improvement (at least on Windows)!

I think I am getting too far off-topic. :-)
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